Curse

The Ages · Jul 02, 2005, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Storm Singer

Why must you do that? All arenas should be open to a PvP character (created PvP that is).

Because in order to buy the skills needed to compete in PvP you still need to atleast explore the zones where the venders are located.

Quote:

Your reasoning is flawed here. You don't HAVE to buy any new expansions. So, that being the case, you wouldn't HAVE to spend any time in PvE (if you would have to at all).

While I dont know for a fact new skills will be put in the expansions im fairly sure they will, There for if the current system stays as is I will have to PvE more to get the locations for the new unlock Priest.

Quote:

Hmm, so if their opinion of their game is the same as your you will stay... if not then you will leave even though you really like the PvP system... Hmm... Good riddance I'd say.

Sounds like you miss read this section, im saying if things are not put into place that will allow me to play the part of the game I enjoy without the side Anoyance of PvE than yes "Good Riddance" Because its not my intent to continue to buy and support a product I can no longer enjoy.

Currently I am enjoying it, But template builds and Random arena can only sustain me for so long before I realize because I dont wish to Grind PvE I can never reach my Full Petential.

Principa Discordia · Jul 02, 2005, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

I play PvE asmuch as I'm not frustrated with some of the missions, and I play PvP whenver I don't feel like playing PvE. The two complement and balance eachother rather well.

PvP or PvE extremists are NOT trying to "Balance the flaws in the game", they are trying to make their own game. As has been said in the past, let Anet make the game in the way that THEY want it, not the way PvE lovers want it and not the PvP lovers want it; in that way you will see how good the game really is, in the way that it is and not the way it could be.

I for one think that the Faction Point system is a great idea, and they are easy to earn. There is NO WAY that people who have unlocked more will be able to dominate you, for the ONLY bonuses over other, newer or less active players are the Vigor and Obsurption runes. Elites do NOT count, you can only have one at a time, besides, you can make a good build out of almost anything.

I never thought I'd say this... But I completely and utterly agree with Sagius' well-written, intelligent, constructive, and thoughtful post and I urge everyone to read it carefully.

The Ages · Jul 02, 2005, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Quote:

PvP or PvE extremists are NOT trying to "Balance the flaws in the game", they are trying to make their own game. As has been said in the past, let Anet make the game in the way that THEY want it, not the way PvE lovers want it and not the PvP lovers want it; in that way you will see how good the game really is, in the way that it is and not the way it could be.

While yes to an Extent they are "Trying to make there own game" The other Extent is we are asking for what we would like to see the game become. If 75% of the player base wants something than its in the best interest of the developers to implement it in the best way posible without straying to far away from there original intent of the game. Players are giving input on what they feel would make the game better for them if there are the numbers to support a change im sure it will happen as Arena Net does seem to listen to its players.

If players dont give there opinions than changes are less likely to be made even if they are desired by a fraction of the player base.

Principa Discordia · Jul 02, 2005, 06:20 AM // 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ages

While yes to an Extent they are "Trying to make there own game" The other Extent is we are asking for what we would like to see the game become. If 75% of the player base wants something than its in the best interest of the developers to implement it in the best way posible without straying to far away from there original intent of the game. Players are giving input on what they feel would make the game better for them if there are the numbers to support a change im sure it will happen as Arena Net does seem to listen to its players.

If players dont give there opinions than changes are less likely to be made even if they are desired by a fraction of the player base.

Yes, this is correct, but there is a huge flaw in changing the game based on what the player base want and you can see this from practically any other MMO on the market right now (Star Wars Galaxies in particular, in recent times.)

The problem lies in that the vast majority of the player base are either whiners, selfish, or simply put ideas forward without thinking them through.

If everyone took the same attitude that I and Sagius do, and try to play and enjoy both the PvE and PvP aspects of the game as a whole game, and make suggestions for them *as a whole game*, the feedback is of much higher quality than some impatient child who wants everything for nothing.

The Ages · Jul 02, 2005, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Principa Discordia

Yes, this is correct, but there is a huge flaw in changing the game based on what the player base want and you can see this from practically any other MMO on the market right now (Star Wars Galaxies in particular, in recent times.)

The problem lies in that the vast majority of the player base are either whiners, selfish, or simply put ideas forward without thinking them through.

If everyone took the same attitude that I and Sagius do, and try to play and enjoy both the PvE and PvP aspects of the game as a whole game, and make suggestions for them *as a whole game*, the feedback is of much higher quality than some impatient child who wants everything for nothing.

Correct there are players who "Want everything now" and as you can tell Arena net has not done it though they easly can, Why Because UAS would infact remove the value of PvE/PvP Hybreed players, No Questions asked. Instead they picked a system that allowed Alternative Methods of play to unlock things.

The problem I Feel is this Alternative is not much of an Alternative at all with the horrible price on Basic Skills comparied to Faction gained. and the existing need to PvE through most the game to even access the ability to purchace these rewards.

If the game can be tweaked so both methods take about the same amount of time than the sides are not over shadowing eachother but instead remain both as Viable options without the need for one or the other.

I Realize that asking for PvP to have the option to stand on its own is asking alot, But if it can be done correctly with equal balance I Dont see to much issues. It just opens options.

Dax · Jul 02, 2005, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Principa Discordia

Yes, this is correct, but there is a huge flaw in changing the game based on what the player base want and you can see this from practically any other MMO on the market right now (Star Wars Galaxies in particular, in recent times.)

Wow, that is so true. Especially when you have a large population of beta testers who have been acclimated to the gameplay, making changes to accomodate new players and trying to please the older beta testers (the ones that know every trick in the book) can ruin a game. Throw in the fact you got PvP and PvE thrown together...ouch.

BE|Dac · Jul 02, 2005, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Principa Discordia

Yes, this is correct, but there is a huge flaw in changing the game based on what the player base want and you can see this from practically any other MMO on the market right now (Star Wars Galaxies in particular, in recent times.)

The problem lies in that the vast majority of the player base are either whiners, selfish, or simply put ideas forward without thinking them through.

If everyone took the same attitude that I and Sagius do, and try to play and enjoy both the PvE and PvP aspects of the game as a whole game, and make suggestions for them *as a whole game*, the feedback is of much higher quality than some impatient child who wants everything for nothing.

impatient child? are you such a dense fool that you can't see the people who need everything handed to them are ones who want to play a game and not have a job, when it is easier to sit through an 8 hour work shift then play a game it is tough to say it is a good game, If a game becomes work and work is required then why call it a game, when a game is advertised to include no tedius aspects and skill over timespent, then not deliver on any of these, and teh TRUE fans of the game get mad, and all you stupid fools defend WoW it gets tiring, the truth is stfu and stfd and I will pwn you any day in PVP and PVE is for carebear retards.

ps. I hate work, I dont enjoy having it on my PC.

Eos · Jul 02, 2005, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ages

I Partialy agree with you, I Dont think Seperating PvE and PvP should be done but one should have an option to advance the way of there choosing. Right now there is no way you can advance without the PvE portion of the game.

This statement is self-contradictory.

Principa Discordia · Jul 02, 2005, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by BE|Dac

the truth is stfu and stfd and I will pwn you any day in PVP and PVE is for carebear retards.

and PS. you suck.

I only needed to read this much from you BE|Dac to look for the forum ignore function, thank you. Now go sit in the corner, little boy.

BE|Dac · Jul 02, 2005, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eos

This statement is self-contradictory.

and the shinning knight Dac rides into town, Ahoy ahoy, bringing sense to the masses of fools

Shut up.

PVE and PVP should always be linked in some ways to create a foundation of character attachment, at the same time PVPers should be given freedom to have fun and not repeat exercises over and over, this is simple game design, for instance, seperation of SP and MP games, how many MP games require repeating SP over and over to have access to a full range of skills or items, even in RPGs it is seldom, for instance, NoX,Fallout Tactics, etc.

They should both exist and it is fine if they are connected in ways "storyline etc" but forcing someone to play something they obviously dont want to is stupid design. in any game.

there is a difference between silver platter and doggy bowl. There are inbetweens such as a normal friggin dinner that doesnt cost an 100$ but isnt shitty food.

Eos · Jul 02, 2005, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by BE|Dac

and the shinning knight Dac rides into town, Ahoy ahoy, bringing sense to the masses of fools

Shut up.

PVE and PVP should always be linked in some ways to create a foundation of character attachment, at the same time PVPers should be given freedom to have fun and not repeat exercises over and over, this is simple game design, for instance, seperation of SP and MP games, how many MP games require repeating SP over and over to have access to a full range of skills or items, even in RPGs it is seldom, for instance, NoX,Fallout Tactics, etc.

They should both exist and it is fine if they are connected in ways "storyline etc" but forcing someone to play something they obviously dont want to is stupid design. in any game.

there is a difference between silver platter and doggy bowl. There are inbetweens such as a normal friggin dinner that doesnt cost an 100$ but isnt shitty food.

If you make it so that playing PVE is no longer necessary, you are effectively seperating PVP from PVE, hence my statement is true, not to mention I wasn't talking to you. Maybe you should go insult the mods some more, or maybe if you think the game design is stupid you should stop playing the game.

Zeru · Jul 02, 2005, 08:10 AM // 08:10

PvP extremists generally want to make the game into a game similar to the beta setup; even before the uas it was still good.

Pve extremists generally want to make this game into another mmonrpg clone because they see it as that type of game, just without a monthly fee.

Two questions I must ask:

How can one be opposed to something which does not affect them, yet so clearly pains others?

Was the community attitude anywhere near as horrible and divided during the betas? Or were people more happy and content?

I just want to have GW be fun and stay unique. Guild wars may be guild wars at whatever stage, but the beta simply felt like the better game, pve and pvp wise (before uas; i dont like that either). Maybe I'm just grumpy because I'm trying to lead a guild of average pvpers and make it better, and we suffer the constant woe of having 2/20 people who have the right skills/runes to play more than 1 class. Always having to run bad team builds because we don't have the right people on at the right times is rather annoying, as is taking 30+ minutes just to set up a build before a tombs run. When I see my faction rating for the 6 hours spent tombing with my guild, it hasn't even broken 800 yet. The saddest part, is that if I posted my situation for which I can see no woe, I'd probably get a bunch of replies to the extent of 'shut up you whiner' or 'go play counterstrike.' I just wish anet hadn't made it so hard for the top player to be diverse, killing the average players potential in the process.

Quintus · Jul 02, 2005, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

PvP extremists generally want to make the game into a game similar to the beta setup; even before the uas it was still good.

Pve extremists generally want to make this game into another mmonrpg clone because they see it as that type of game, just without a monthly fee.

Two questions I must ask:

How can one be opposed to something which does not affect them, yet so clearly pains others?

Was the community attitude anywhere near as horrible and divided during the betas? Or were people more happy and content?

I just want to have GW be fun and stay unique. Guild wars may be guild wars at whatever stage, but the beta simply felt like the better game, pve and pvp wise (before uas; i dont like that either). Maybe I'm just grumpy because I'm trying to lead a guild of average pvpers and make it better, and we suffer the constant woe of having 2/20 people who have the right skills/runes to play more than 1 class. Always having to run bad team builds because we don't have the right people on at the right times is rather annoying, as is taking 30+ minutes just to set up a build before a tombs run. When I see my faction rating for the 6 hours spent tombing with my guild, it hasn't even broken 800 yet. The saddest part, is that if I posted my situation for which I can see no woe, I'd probably get a bunch of replies to the extent of 'shut up you whiner' or 'go play counterstrike.' I just wish anet hadn't made it so hard for the top player to be diverse, killing the average players potential in the process.

I agree 100%.

Shadow_Avenger · Jul 02, 2005, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Ok, nice btw.
What if A.net put Priests of Balathazar in the Arenas and also allowed you to purchase Guild Sigels with Faction points. This would in essance make the PvP and PvE aspects independant of each other, both can be played together, or they can be played seperate as seperate entities. The the only thing that PvP players would complain about is the slow faction point gain in the standard arenas. Then again if they put the guild creation / cloak creation NPC's in the arena, they could actually use a system when a Guild could pool Faction Points, like they do with gold to purchase a Sigel or even help other guild members purchase that elite skill / superior rune.

The game as is, is good, but not flawless on bothsides of the fence. A.net are working through all these issues, everyone complains 'they nerfed farming' etc but I heard very few compliments when they rebalanced an area, such as Skyward Reach, to make the area atleast doable, (originally the hydra where in groups of 5 and there where 3x as many

) Patience is a virtue, lets give A.net some credit and see how it evolves.

Spike · Jul 02, 2005, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Actually shadow avenger no it would'nt. If you want to seperate pve and pvp you would also need to remove the inablility of other people to be able to enter the fissure, UW and do a few quests when thier region does'nt have favour. I would be all for that. If pvp players can get any skill and/or item from doing pvp why can't I get to any pve area/quest with out haveing to rely on pvp results going my regions ways.

Dax · Jul 02, 2005, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by BE|Dac

They should both exist and it is fine if they are connected in ways "storyline etc" but forcing someone to play something they obviously dont want to is stupid design. in any game.

Personally I haven't played a story driven game yet that didn't have atleast one point that I really didn't want to do. Ironically there alot of people who have found ways around this in GW by exploiting the game, making it unfair to those who want to play through the game. So having both PvP and PvE tied together is difficult for people on both sides of the fence.

I would say in a single player game, it's fine to do to your hearts content but obviously it makes a imbalance in a multiplayer environment.

Keeping in mind the survival of this game rest on people playing it and buying the expansion pack ect, the developers have to consider all points of view not just those who complain the loudest.

Loviatar · Jul 02, 2005, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

Two questions I must ask:

How can one be opposed to something which does not affect them, yet so clearly pains others?

Was the community attitude anywhere near as horrible and divided during the betas? Or were people more happy and content?

.

i admit i dont have answers just half formed opinions of mine

1. the devs must have some specific gameplan which is broken if what they want is implimented

2. during the beta it was only 3 days a month so everything was fresh new and shiny to most people with a full month off to get excited about *NEXT TIME*

people were so busy looking at something new they didnt have time to look for flaws

just an opinion

i like the game warts and all

i want a huge PVE update every week but know i wont get it

it was PVP turn this time and i never complained that they got something

as long as they keep giving stuff out something i want will show up for me (or not)

i still enjoy it

EternalTempest · Jul 02, 2005, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Great Thread, I agree this one game.

Here's they way I look at it, I do PvE and near the end of the game and staring to look at Pvp. I could now start a new PvE (with different job) or now jump in to Pvp with my current job/sub while using the points to unlock towards job I have very little in. In truth more likely to pve for skills of a new job and use pts towards equipment unlocking. I like the way it's now set up.

I come from traditional MMORPH so when people talk of grinding my initial result ok while thinking how long it takes you to get anywhere in advancement / the next country in Final Fantasy XI. Since I am use to games that really grind, GW is fast past for me.

Dax · Jul 02, 2005, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by EternalTempest

I come from traditional MMORPH so when people talk of grinding my initial result ok while thinking how long it takes you to get anywhere in advancement / the next country in Final Fantasy XI. Since I am use to games that really grind, GW is fast past for me.

Rofl, played FFXI for well over a year and it's really hard to feel people sorry for people who say GW is a grind.

Shadow_Avenger · Jul 02, 2005, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

Actually shadow avenger no it would'nt. If you want to seperate pve and pvp you would also need to remove the inablility of other people to be able to enter the fissure, UW and do a few quests when thier region does'nt have favour. I would be all for that. If pvp players can get any skill and/or item from doing pvp why can't I get to any pve area/quest with out haveing to rely on pvp results going my regions ways.

Bar that obvious point, it would. I have said on many other posts that FoW and UW should not be related to favor.